>>> from nbc, this is education nation. an interview with president barack obama live from the white house . here's matt lauer .
>> and good morning, everyone. i'm matt lauer live at the white house on this monday morning, kicking off a week long initiative here on nbc universal , we're calling education nation and i thank you for watching on all the different networks of nbc universal . it's important that we give our kids a good education and yet it seems very difficult to plich. a recent poll found that 67% of you feel that the education system in this country right now is in crisis. the most important question of course is can we fix it. i'm joined now by the president of the united states barack obama , mr. president, thank you for your time.
>> thank you for being this program, there's nothing more important than the issue we're talking about today.
>> a third of our opportunities in this country continue graduate. a third aren't college ready when they get their high school diploma and 35 percent of 12th graders are proficient in reading. how did it happen?
>> it's been a long time coming. historically, when we first set up the public school systems across the country, we were leaps and bounds ahead of the vast majority of the countries around the world, that's not true anymore. they're surpassing us in math and science. it ahappened over decades. but part of the challenge is to understand that how well we do economically, whether jobs are created here, high end jobs that support families and support the future of the american people is going to depend on whether or not we can do something about these schools.
>> when it comes to crisis in education , it's not just a money thing, but it's a money thing. can we spend our way out of it?
>> we can't spend our way out of it. when you look at the statistics, our per pupil spending has gone up in the last few years. ev they don't have up to date textbooks, they don't have computers in the classroom. so those who say money makes no difference are wrong, on the other hand, money without reform will not fix the problem. what we have got to do is combine a very vigorous reform agenda that increases standards, helps make sure that we have got the best possible teachers inside the classroom, make sure we're clearing away some of the democratic underbrush that's keeping kids are learning.
>> one of the ways you want to accomplish that is with your initiative called race to the top . states will compete for money that goes into their education system at the state level if they bring about reform in their communities. while some are applauding it, some have criticized it because it's a competition, it's kind of a march madness surrounding this money when we should be funding all the states .
>> the federal government provides assistance to all states under a formula system, especially to help poorer school districts so they can buy supplies, make sure they can hire supplemental reading instructors and so forth. so that hasn't changed. but that money because it was in a formula, everybody was getting it no matter what you did, wasn't really a catalyst for reform . so what we said is let's set aside a small portion about $4 billion and let's say you've got to compete for this and you've got to compete around things that reformers know make a difference. high standards , accountability, really training teachers effectively, making sure low performing schools are being boosted up. 34 states already have changed their laws, where previously all that stuff that was stuck in state legislators , now suddenly they're starting to make changes. it's probably the most powerful reform in a century.
>> why $4 billion sounds like a lot, but it is a fraction, why not make more federal funding dependent on the kind of reforms you just talked about.
>> what we want to do is make sure that we're still helping poor school districts that just don't have enough money. but it turns out that $4 billion, although a small fraction of the money that we spend on school is enough to get people's attention. i'm not going to lie to you, there's going to be resistance as we move forward, a lot of members of congress say to themselves, if my state loses the competition, i don't feel as good about this, even if i initiated reforms.
>> how do the kids feel if their state didn't compete as well as another state , they're out of luck.
>> that's why we want to make sure that every state is getting help from the federal government . there's no state that can't win this thing is because all they have to do is say we're going to take seriously those things like making sure you've got a terrific teacher in each classroom and making sure we have got high standards and accountability, every state can accomplish that it's just getting through the resistance that often times builds up in these states .
>> there are some good and great teachers in this country, there are also some mediocre and poor teachers in this country. can real reform take place unless you identify those mediocre and poor teachers and remove them? and when i say remove them, i don't mean shuffle them from school to school or put them in a room, i mean fire them.
>> first of all i think everybody who looked at this said the single most important ingredient inside the classroom is the quality of the teacher and there are some terrific teachers out there. my sister teaches and when you hear stories about how hard they work when they come home from school , they're still doing lesson plans, often times in tough schools serving as mentors. one of the things i want to do is lift up the teaching profession to honor the way it needs to be honored in our society. and by the way, when i travelled to china for example and i sit down with the mayor of shanghai and he talks about the fact that teaching is considered one of the most prestigious ones and a teacher is getting paid the same as an engineer, that, i think accounts for how well they're doing in terms of boosting their education system . having said that, what is absolutely true is that if we can't identify teachers who are sub par, give them the opportunity to get better, but if they don't get better at a certain point saying these teachers should not be in the classroom, if we don't do that, then we are doing a disservice to our kids and the school system has to be designed not for the adults, it's got to be designed for the children.
>> there's a new documentary out there right now that's called waiting for superman. they're saying that teachers iss unions are set up to protect their members and protect those mediocre and bad teachers and getting in the way of real reform . is that a fair assessment in your opinion?
>> here's what is true, oftentimes teachers unions are designed to make sure that their membership are protected against arbitrary firings, i am a strong supporter of a notion that a union can protect its members and help be part of the solution as opposed to part of the problem. what is also true is that sometimes that means they are resistant to change when things aren't working. to their credit, you have had a lot of unions who are now working with states on his reform plans that include things like charter schools , include things like pay for performance and higher standards and accountability for teachers and so we have seen states be able to work with teachers unions to bring about reform as opposed to resist them.
>> if you could speak to the membership of the two most powerful teachers unions right now and tell them what they must do starting today to be a legitimate partner in reform .
>> as president i can speak to them and what i have said to them is that we want to work with you, we're not interesting in imposing changes on you because the truth of the matter is that if teachers aren't feeling god about their profession, they're not going to do a good job in the classroom, but you can't defend a status quo in which a third of our kids are dropping out, you can't defend a status quo when you've got schools across the country that are dropout factories where more than half of the kids are dropping out. in those schools you've got to have radical change and radical change is something that's in the interest of the students and ultimately in the interest of teachers. the vast majority of teachers want to do a good job, they didn't go into teaching for the money, they went into teaching because they want to make a difference. we have got to identify teachers who are going well, teachers who are not doing well, we have got to give them the support and the training to do well. and if some teachers aren't doing a good job, they've got to go.
>> you want to identify the low lowest 5% of schools and turn them over to charter schools . that could double the number of charter schools . are you worried that you would dilute some quality in charter schools ?
>> charter schools are not a panacea. one of the things when you're looking at school reform , it turns out there are no silver bullets here, reform is hard, it's systematic, it takes time, but we know that there are some charters who have figured out how to do a very good job in the lowest income schools with the kids who are two, three grade levels behind and yet they can achieve 95% graduation rates, boost reading scores and math scores very high. what we have got to do is to look at the success of these schools, find out how do we duplicate them and make sure that we are still holding charter schools accountable the same which we are all the schools. we shouldn't say just because a school is a charter they're an excellent school , because there are some poor performing charters. what i'm interested in and what my secretary of education is interested in is fostering these laboratories of excellence. if we lengthen the school day here, or we give them a little more home work there, or we're setting aside time for personal development for teachers here, or we're building a culture of excellence among kids at that school , that works, once we find out something works, we want to import that into every school not just charter schools .
>> i think people are going to be talking about a documentary, they talk about the lack of choice that people, you mentioned charter schools in those very bad neighborhoods, the lack of choice that people in our poorest of neighborhoods have, if there's a low performing school and there's a charter school , the number of applicants for the few positions at that charter school can be enormous and so what happens by law is that the kids are put into a lottery and literally and figuratively they future is down to their name being drawn out of a hat.
>> it's heart breaking and when you see these parents in the film, you are reminded that i don't care what people's income levels are, their stake in their kids, their wanting desperately to make sure their kids are able to succeed is so powerful and it's obviously difficult to watch to see these parent who is know that -- our goal is to make all schools high quality schools, make every classroom one where if a kid is showing up, taking the responsibility seriously, doing what they're supposed to do, they're going to be able to succeed, they're going to be able to read and have high math scores. what we now know is that there are schools that the work even in the toughest circumstances and once we know that, it's inexcusable that we don't make sure that every school is performing at that same level.
>> we ask parents to give us some e-mail questions. we had bethany who wrote us, one of our biggest concerns in education is that parents are rarely held accountable for their children's education t blame for failing test scores always falls on the teacher. the responsibility of education should be shared by teachers, administrators and parents. why doesn't anyone ever hold parents accountable.
>> there has not been a speech i have made on education over the last five years in which i haven't said the exact same thing. if the kid's coming home from school and the parents aren't checking to see if they do their home work or watch tv, that's going to be a problem. and that's by the way true here in this white house . malia and sasha are great kids and great students, but if you gave them a choice, they would be happy to sit in front of the tv all night long every night. at some point you have to say, your job right now, kid, is to learn. and i'm going to check with your teachers and i'm going to make sure that you're doing your home work and you're not doing anything else until you've done your home work and that kind of attitude, i think makes a huge difference at every level. one thing i want to point out is that there's no doubt that the schools in the toughest neighborhoods and the poorest neighborhoods are often times the ones that are poorest performing, they are in crisis. but one of the things that everybody needs to understand is that across the board, in middle class suburbs in schools that are considered actually pretty good, you are still seeing a decline in terms of math and science performance and one of the things that we are very excited about because we need to focus on math and science, my administration is announcing that we are going to specifically focus on training 10,000 new math and science teachers, we have got to boost performance in that area. we used to rank at the top, we are now 21st in science, 25th in math. that is a sign of long-term decline that has to be reversed and so we're going to be putting a big emphasis on math and science education and part of that means getting better teachers, but part of it also means parent understanding that their kids need to excel in those subjects in particular.
>> you're going to make a lot of friends or a lot of enemies here. mr. cohn's sixth grade class in cincinnati, president obama , we understand there are discussions regarding the idea of attending school year round, do you think we should attend school year round? if so why?
>> we now have our kids go to school about a month less than most other advanced countries . and that month makes a difference. it means that kids are losing a lot of what they learn during the school year during the summer, it's especially severe for poorer kids who may not be -- may not see as many books in the house during the summers, aren't getting as many educational opportunities. here's an example of where you've got a good idea, make sure our kids are in school longer, that means the school is open, you've got to pay teachers, custodial staff, et cetera , but that would be money well spent.
>> kelly burnett on our plaza, she's from nassau county , florida, kelly , good morning, what's your question for president obama ?
>> thank you for taking my question president obama , as a father of two very delightful and seemingly very bright daughters, i wanted to know if you think that malia and sasha would get the same kind of education at a d.c. public school compared to the elite private academy that they're attending now.
>> thanks for the question, kelly and i'll be blunt with you, the answer is no right now. the d.c. public school systems are struggling, they have made some important strides over the last several years to move in the direction of reform . there are some terrific individual schools in the d.c. system. and that's true by the way in every city across the country. there are some great public schools that are on par with any public school in the country. a lot of times you get tests in, or if the lottery pick for you to be able to get into those schools and so those options are not available for enough children. i'll be very honest with you, given my position, if i wantsed to find a great public school formal leah -- for malia and sasha to be in, we could probably maneuver to do it. but for a mom and a dad who are working hard but who don't have a bunch of connections, don't have a lot of choice in terms of where they live, they should be getting the same quality education for their kids as anybody else and we don't have that yet.
>> kelly , thank you for your question.
>> one more question, how do you inspire those teachers you talked about, the ones that are so important, how do you inspire a young college student who's considering going into teaching, who sees budgets being slashed, seeing teachers have to dip into their own pocket book for classroom supplies and now sees new pressure to get their kids to perform in a system that a lot of people think is broken, how do you inspire the next generation of teachers?
>> first of all, there is nothing more important than teaching, i genuinely believe this. i don't know a teacher who can't look back and say, you know what? here are so many lives that i have touched, so many people who i have had influence over and each of us have memories of some great teacher who steered us in the right direction. what i also want to make sure is that if they go into teaching, they can stay in teaching, they can afford it which means that we have got to raise teacher pay, and to professionalize it if you want to be a master teacher , you can make more money. that's true of any profession. we have got to make sure they have a structure around them in which they can succeed and if we do those things, i think there are tons of kids who want -- the teach for america program, you see some of the smartest kids in the country applying and often times having to be on waiting lists to get in. the problem is that we can't attract great young people to go into teaching, the problem is after two or three years they start dropping out. they feel discouraged because no matter how hard they're working in the class room , they just can't afford it once they start trying to raise a family, particularly in urban area where is the cost of living is higher and they don't feel they're getting enough support from the principal and the school district .
>> so you reform that system and they will come.
>> they will come and anybody who's watching, we're going to have to fill about a million teaching slots around the country and i want young people to understand that there is not a more important profession for the success of our economy over the long-term than making sure that we have got great teachers in the classroom.
>> some other topics, recently the poverty rate in this country was announced, it's at 14.3%. that means roughly 44 million americans are living at or below the poverty level . the poverty level is $22,000 a year for a family of four. so consider a family of four making $30,000 or $40,000 they're not living the dream either, they're struggling every single week. how can a president hear those numbers and not decide to declare this some sort of national emergency .
>> we have gone through the worst recession since the great depression and although the steps my administration has taken to stem the crisis and stabilize the situation, we're still in the midst of the after effects of that, when you've got a lot of people underemployed, it means that the poverty rate is going to go up. that means taking the steps that i've been pushing for, making sure we have tax breaks for companies investing here in the united states , making sure that the small business bill that i will sign today makes sure they encourage investment, building infrastructure so we are improving our ability to perform internationally, all those things are going to make a difference because the single most important anti-poverty program we can initiate is making sure there's enough job growth out there.
>> last time we sat down you said that the recovery would not be a jobless recovery . it seems to me i'm listening to more and more economists who don't agree with that.
>> here's the challenge. it's not that this is a jobless recove recovery. we have seen eight months in a row of private sector job growth . we're actually seeing more job growth so far in this recovery than we did in the last recovery back in 2001 . the problem is we just lost so many jobs because of the crisis that we have got a much bigger hole to fill and that means we're going to have to accelerate job growth and we have got to do everything we can to focus on that and that means making sure that anything we do, we're spending that money wisely, and one of the major disagreements i have got with the republicans right now has to do with tax cuts for the wealthiest americans . you and me. you and i, matt, we're not likely to spend any additional tax cut because whenever we need for our families we can afford right now. what we need are tax cuts for the middle class who are struggling and if they get a tax cut , they're likely to spend it, which means that a small business is potentially going to get a customer and we're going to see job growth . so we can't spend $700 billion on a tax cut that is not going to spur job growth . we can spend money on things like infrastructure, on things like school construction, on making sure that small businesses are getting loans because those are the things that are more likely to generate the job growth we need.
>> you remember velma hart, who was a woman who said she was one of your biggest supporters, and she was exhausted defending you. it seems to me what she was saying and i have heard others say as of late, mr. president is that there's a feeling that in some way you have lost touch with the struggles of the average person on the street. i say it with some sense of irony because you began your career in public service as a community organizer , that is all about getting in touch with people on the streets, so how can this criticism be coming up?
>> velma i think subsequently was interviewed and she talked about the fact that she said look, the president's really trying, a lot of things i think are right, but it's just not happening fast enough. everybody's feeling that frustration right now. i feel it, acutely. and, you know, the fact of the matter is that as long as unemployment is as high as it is, as long as we haven't recovered as quickly as we should have, people are going to be hurting and even if they think that i know they're hurting, what they're asking is, when are you going to be able to do something concrete that allows me to get a job or make sure that i can pay my bills or make sure that i don't lose my house, and all i can communicate to the american people is that every single day, the thing that i wake up and the thing that i go to bed with is the fact that there are too many people out there who are doing the right thing, working hard and are having a tough time in this economy, we're doing everything we can to make sure they have an opportunity to live out the american dream .
>> we have five weeks before the midterm election. you said in a speech recently, you said the republicans, they're treating me like a dog. former president clinton said he doesn't think that democrats and you included have been rigorous enough in pushing back against some of the republican attacks. mr. president, do you intend to change your tone or your emotion in terms of your pushing back.
>> well, i think that you have heard me speak around the country over the last several months, i think that it's clear, i have got a very sharp difference on a lot of issues. when i say republicans, i really should say republican leadership, i think there's a lot of wonderful people out there who consider themselves republicans or independents who have maybe some criticisms of my administration, but basically recognize we have got to solve some big problems, we have got to be serious, we have got to base our decisions on facts. what i'm seeing out of the republican leadership over the last several years has been a set of policies that are just irresponsible and we saw in their pledge to america a similar set of irresponsible policies, they say they want to balance the budget, they propose $4 trillion worth of tax cuts and $16 billion in spending cuts and then they say we're going to somehow magically balance the budget, that's not a serious approach. so the question for voters over the next five weeks is who is putting forward policies that have a chance to move our country forward so that our schools have improved, so that we have world class infrastructure, so that we're serious about helping small business , we're serious about getting a handle on our spending and who's just engaging in rhetoric, and if that debate is taking place over the next five weeks, we are going to do just fine.
>> rahm emanuel , your chief of staff is considering a run for the mayor's office in chicago. a lot of people think his time is getting short to make that decision. has he communicate his decision to you?
>> i think that rahm will have to make a decision quickly because running for mayor in chicago is a serious enterprise.
>> has he told you what he wants to do?
>> he hasn't told me yet.
>> would you support him and endorse him in that race?
>> i have said i think he will be an excellent mayor, but until he makes
